Why I Support Pro-Choice Legislation, Even Though I'm Extremely Pro-Life

                  
I'm a passionate supporter of pro-life, but I also know that pro-life legislation results in more deaths and suffering than pro-choice does. The following is a mostly unedited debate I had with some fellow pro-life friends about the subject. I think regardless of what your stance is on the issue, or even if you're apathetic on it, you'll find the following discourse very compelling: (all names are omitted, for privacy reasons)

Moderator: i am pro life who with me?!

Timothy Matias: I am definitely pro life, but I don't think the federal government has any jurisdiction either way. Any laws dealing with moral issues should be handled at the local (county or state) level.

Pro-Life Supporter: You know I'm with you! Timothy this country (not states) were founded on moral principles. It most definitely should be handled at the supreme level, but I think our government is too corrupt so I think we will have to defeat abortion on the state level.

Timothy Matias: this country was founded on the constitution, that says the U.S. government has no right to interfere with people's personal choices, regardless of moral opinion.

Timothy Matias: I think state level is acceptable. Federal is when things start getting really messy

Pro-Life Supporter: Excuse me!! Is it illegal to murder someone!?! This country was founded on Christian Morals, period. And all of them are being tested now..

Timothy Matias: I agree that killing any living thing is wrong, I just don't think that the U.S. government should have any authority on the matter.

Moderator: thats the only way to stop it though, unless it is completely illegal, innocent children are murdered in the womb everyday. we will never get everyone to see how wrong it is, so the only solution is to ban it. it is not my choice to kill someone just because they are in my womb. thats pretty much like saying i can kill my 1 year old daughter just because she will make my life complicated. What happened to adoption!!!???!!!

Timothy Matias: this country was founded by Masons. Lucky for us, this country was founded by smart people who recognized the separation between church and state, and the importance of individual liberty. Otherwise, every able bodied man would be a Mason initiate.

@Pro-Life Supporter: I appreciate your enthusiasm but you're taking the intentions of the founding fathers completely out of context

Moderator: When did appearence become more important than life?

Moderator: no she is not

Timothy Matias: ‎@Moderator unfortunately you're dead wrong here. Just like the war on drugs and prohibition, illegalizing abortion actually increases it, and results in more shady and dangerous procedures, and a prevalence of the black market. the founding fathers recognized this causal relationship.

you really need to consider the cause-effect relationship when you think about these things. I love you as a friend, so please consider this constructive criticism :-)

Pro-Life Supporter: Timothy, the truth needs to be heard. Abortion will never be destroyed by anyone but us.. So I hope your a strong advocate just as Sierra is.. Take a stand for life, get over politics.. This fight has nothing to do with politics..

Pro-choice Supporter: It's factual that making abortion an illegal procedure leads to riskier black market abortions which endanger women's lives. Lawfully abiding women who encounter unwanted pregnancy are given a different life than they intended for themselves, along with the gift of a baby (this gift does not outweigh the value of quality of life). The indication of being pro-life is the belief that women should have less of a right to choose the direction of their lives than men. Protecting the quality of life Is more "pro-life" than being pro-life.

Random Troll: with over 6 billion people on earth and our recourses depleting as rapidly as they are.. I am not pro life.. I am pro choice.. I belive in uethenasia as well.. we need to start population controle and we need to have fewer babies... not every couple needs a kid any more..

Pro-choice supporter: Women who would choose not to have the baby of an unwanted pregnancy are most likely to have children later on in their lives when they are actually ready to support a family. (We're not losing mothers by keeping abortion legal, we're avoiding hardship and protecting women.)

Pro-Life Supporter: Here are some facts that would be great for you guys to research.

1. Over population is a myth.
2. Abortion agencies are just as risky as other alternatives. They aren't equipped for emergencies. Ask my brother a paramedic who when on a call to our local pph. Scary, girl was barely alive when they got there and they didn't know what to do.
3. Abortion is more dangerous than having a children.
4. Abortion can cause sterility.
5. Most women and men regret abortions its called post abortion syndrome. And it ruins lives.
6. Abortion IS legal beyond the 3 rd trimester if the reason is right.
7. A baby at 3 months gestation can fear for its life.
8. Our population is at a stand still and continued abortion and euthinacia will result in a decline in population.

Pro-Life Supporter: Out of control and self indulged sex habits it what has caused this world hardship.

Pro-choice Supporter: The domestic violence rates are highest among couples who are put under the strain of having a child when they could not afford it. Sex habits paired with lack of prophylactics and unwillingness to take advantage of a sad but necessary last resort (abortion), heavily contribute to hardship. Ensuring that the baby you have will at least have a moderately good standard of living is essential to the child's success in life. The belief that it is wrong to have an abortion is a leading reason for couples who cannot afford the cost of having a baby, to have a baby. It sets the child up for psychological problems due to domestic hardship--leading to abuse.

Pro-choice Supporter: ‎Timothy Matias you have some good points. And then Timothy says he opposes abortion at the same time as supporting the value of choice. A curious contradiction indeed!

Timothy Matias ‎@Pro-Life Supporter: I am supportive of education for pro-life, and that abortion should never be encouraged by anyone. there are plenty of other options, like adoption, foster care, raising the baby as an opportunity to reap the merits of personal responsibility in action. I think that the government should fund pro-life campaigns and knowledge about the alternatives as much as possible.

I don't know why you think your personal sources are more reliable than time-proven statistics and numerous studies by scientific sources, but it's not healthy to be so emotionally involved in any factual assessments.

FTR, I have already researched all of those "facts", and most of them are about as true that the BS people find off Yahoo answers.

1. Over population is a myth.

we went from 6.7 billion the last population survey to well over 7 billion this survey.

2. Abortion agencies are just as risky as other alternatives. They aren't equipped for emergencies. Ask my brother a paramedic who when on a call to our local pph. Scary, girl was barely alive when they got there and they didn't know what to do.

This is simply not true, and according to research, it's like someone saying that doing drugs with a sterile needle has such as high of a risk of HIV, as a person injecting themselves with an unsterile needle. whoever told you this is spreading very dangerous lies, I hope unintentionally.

3. Abortion is more dangerous than having a children.

Depending on the method used, it's statistically less dangerous. Abortions involving incisions can be more dangerous, but nowadays they have noninvasive methods such as taking a pill, the effects of which are no more dangerous than an extra-intensive menstruation cycle

4. Abortion can cause sterility.

So can a natural birth. incidentally, giving birth also has a significant risk of the death of the mother, and this is one of the common reasons people have abortions

5. Most women and men regret abortions its called post abortion syndrome. And it ruins lives.

Lies. I don't know the exact statistics, but post-abortion syndrome accounts for well less than half of all abortions, and even then, this statistics is a misconception. Many people say homosexuality causes trauma to children who's parents encouraged it for the same reason-- it's not the abortion that causes trauma, it's the family and friends who refuse to support the girl in her decision that are really causing the harm. the majority of this "trauma" is caused by conditioning.

8. Our population is at a stand still and continued abortion and euthinacia will result in a decline in population.

As I said, we've gained over 300 million years since the last survey, so this claim is total lies.

Please check your sources next time before replying. I am extremely pro life, but I'm also a realistic. I know what works and what doesn't, and anti-abortion legislation at the federal level is worse than pro-choice, even though it might sound pretty in theory. What we need is to educate people about their choices. Limiting their choices only causes them to result to unsafe alternatives. These are the facts of life ;-)

Timothy Matias: ‎@Pro-choice Supporter: I think the political conflict between pro-choice and pro-life is the biggest misunderstanding I've seen in the political landscape. both of them have the same values, and yet they're so polarized in their political solutions. I hope that education on the value of both choice and pro-life education will resolve this meaningless conflict of interests ASAP ;-)

Pro-choice Supporter: Well played, Sir. ;)

Timothy Matias: knowledge is power. to influence the world requires solid facts and a thorough understanding of both sides of the argument

Pro Life Supporter Timothy, as I said above this isn't a political battle. I think you haven't involved yourself in the pro-life movement before. Maybe watch this video www.180movie.com and maybe you would see that your tactic is really useless.

Timothy Matias: I don't have tactics. I only wish that people understand the facts on these issues, and ensure that as much death and suffering due to anti-abortion legislation can be avoided as much as possible. I am very much pro-life.

Pro Life Supporter: I honestly don't know why you think that I or any person of the pro-life movement thinks government should resolve this problem. If you haven't noticed the large amounts of abortion agencies shutting down, or people already in the industry converting to pro-life. It is by one person at a time that we will defeat abortion.

Timothy Matias: I wholeheartedly agree with you on that :-)